Philosopher on the Job: An Interview with Lisa Doeland on Careers in Academic Philosophy
It is that time of year again when many students are graduating and thinking about their next steps into the world of employment, taxes, and other aspects of life after university. By now, I ought to be used to the jokes I hear about philosophers struggling to find their place in the world after their bachelor’s or master’s degrees. To many philosophy students, continuing their research may seem like an obvious and straightforward path. If an academic career is something you are considering, I strongly recommend talking to your lecturers and professors about their experiences.
As a philosophy student interested in political ecology and climate ethics, I reached out to a number of lecturers and researchers in relevant fields. I wanted to hear about the paths they had taken to work on these topics in the realm of academic philosophy. This project started as part of a course I followed during my bachelor’s degree, titled Philosophy in Practice. Throughout this course, I investigated some potential careers, hoping to be swayed towards following one path or another.
However, as I neared the end of that degree, I quickly realised that there is no fixed path for everyone in navigating a particular career, academic or otherwise. A particular conversation that sticks with me is one I had with Radboud University lecturer and PhD candidate, Lisa Doeland.
I open our discussion with some questions I had been pondering for a while: “How did you decide to pursue a career in academia? Did you always know that this was the right career path for you?”
“No, I didn’t always know,” Lisa admits, smiling as she joins me at the table in her office. “I began with my bachelor’s degree in Literary Studies, but I became interested in philosophy before I completed it. During my first year, I followed a course on the Philosophy of Culture, and I really liked it.” Soon after, Lisa enrolled as a philosophy student, too. After seven years, she had completed two bachelor’s degrees and her master’s degree in philosophy.
Upon learning this, I wondered whether Lisa had moved from her master’s degree to a PhD position in relatively short succession. Throughout the final year of my bachelor’s degree, I questioned whether I wanted to spend the next several years in academia. A big part of me wanted to explore other interests and see what would await me in the near future outside the university.
While I am still undecided on what path I will follow after my master’s degree, Lisa shows me that it is alright to take the time to focus on other aspects of life and figure out what comes next.
“I had my first child when I finished my bachelor’s thesis in Literary Studies,” she comments. “It wasn’t long after that until I wrote my master’s thesis, too. It worked out well because I had good focus, especially when my daughter was young. I would think, ‘alright, now you’re sleeping, I can write’. Within four or five months, I finished the thesis. I was amazed by that, but it happened.”
Shortly after completing her master’s degree, Lisa started working at the university as a programmer of lectures and debates. She already knew that she would like to do a PhD but was not sure about the topic yet. “I really like doing philosophy – theorising – but I wanted to make sure that there was some societal relevance to my research. I hadn’t found my niche yet,” Lisa resumes. “I was about 30 by then. I had worked as a programmer for around three years when I finally found a topic that was both societally relevant and interesting from my philosophical perspective: waste.”
The natural follow-up question is how she entered her PhD position in the Department of Philosophical Ethics and Political Philosophy. As Lisa has been researching the topic she found most intriguing, I was curious to hear how she got there.
“I didn’t apply for a PhD position. It all started with Angela Roothaan, whom I met through a Filosofisch Café in Amsterdam,” she explains. “I did an interview with her, and afterwards, we got talking. She asked, especially because I’m a woman, ‘Why are you not doing a PhD?’ – I was asked this question many times over the years, mainly from women in academia. With Angela, I wrote the first draft of my research proposal. However, I knew I still needed a full professor as a supervisor. I thought, ‘alright, who would share my fascination with waste?’ This is where I was happy to have René ten Bos as my guide. Finally, I asked Cees Leijenhorst too, for day-to-day supervision.”
“What does your day-to-day supervision entail?” I wonder, curious about the difference between thesis supervision at the bachelor’s or master’s level and PhD research.
“Cees has been very important throughout my research process. This is not because he’s particularly interested in the topic of waste, but because he’s a good and critical reader. He would keep asking questions.”
“What kinds of questions?” I wonder, especially since the ontology of waste is not Cees’ specific area of expertise.
“‘Why are you making an argument in this way and not in that way? Where are the summaries? Where are the introductions? – I had become accustomed to writing for a more general audience, less so for academic audiences. Cees Leijenhorst has been a very helpful supervisor,” Lisa shares, appreciative of the advice she receives.
I was particularly intrigued by the idea of formulating a research plan and proposing it to a potential supervisor. Lisa continues, “I needed some time to digest everything and complete my proposal, leading to my official enrolment as an external candidate. That was in 2018, so I am now five years into my PhD.”
Curious to learn more, I ask, “what is it like being an external candidate at the university?” I wonder whether Lisa’s PhD experiences vary from those of an internal candidate.
“I’m enrolled in the Graduate School for the Humanities. It is not just Philosophy, Theology and Religious Studies – other humanities studies are a part of it too. The Graduate School hosts many events, but I don’t often attend them. Perhaps I would attend if I was younger. I think I’m quite old compared to other PhD students. Though, I want to emphasise that even if you’re an external candidate, the university finds ways to include you. There are also reading groups at the university. Finding and becoming a part of a community can be important as an external candidate. Otherwise, it might be a lonely project if it’s just you, your laptop, and your supervisors. I don’t think that would be healthy.”
“How did you go about finding your sense of community?” I question, pondering Lisa’s earlier remarks on often not attending the Graduate School events.
“For me, it’s been helpful to be a part of the philosophical cafe in Amsterdam. That’s a community in itself. It’s not an option, then, to limit yourself to your own research or interests because there are always other people’s lectures. You quickly find yourself reading, doing an interview, and then researching a philosopher that you hadn’t heard of before. It broadens your scope because you spend a lot of time developing and connecting philosophy to other themes – societal issues. Reading groups and philosophical cafes like that have helped me out a lot. Though, of course, you can also find this sense of community at the university. If you’re part of a PhD project, you will be inspired by other researchers that you’re working with.” Lisa sheds light on her experiences, and we continue to discuss the importance of building a network of people working as academic philosophers.
Reflecting on her network before entering her PhD position, I ask, “how did you find the shift from lecture programming to working as an academic in the university?”
“I already knew many professors and researchers at the university through my work as a programmer. They didn’t know me as an academic yet, but they knew I read their books and engaged with their work. As a result, the academics I have been working with already knew what they could expect from me and knew that I was capable.”
“Was anything different than you expected?” I wonder, thinking about how her place of work remained the same while Lisa’s new position was quite different.
“I always knew it was going to be hard work – especially teaching. Perhaps I could say, ‘I only have one or two hours to prepare, and that’s all’. But that’s not how I roll. For example, I lead a course called Classical Texts, where I read philosophical literature together with students. Last week, I thought I had a good understanding of a text until a student asked some interesting questions about it. When there are many students asking questions, I can’t always answer them all. I try to be upfront about it – ‘I’m sorry I haven’t got a proper answer for you right now’. Next week, I want to be able to explain it to them. This means reading up on Kant for a day and a half – it is important. It helps me out in my own research, and I feel obliged to guide the students properly. Some extra work needs to be done, but I create a healthy work-life balance for myself anyway. I try to make sure that I have enough time for everything, especially for my family, though I’m also intrinsically motivated to put in the work. I don’t mind reading up on Kant and putting in the extra hours.”
This time, I meander to the topic of starting a family and being a woman in academia. Many higher-function academic positions are still male-dominated today. “Do you feel like women are still underrepresented in your field of philosophical research?”
We take a moment to reflect, and Lisa shares her thoughts. “I think there are a lot of women in interesting positions today. When I think about the research and the literature that I draw on, I made a conscious decision to engage with certain authors. At one point, when I was 3 or 4 years into my PhD, I felt like I was working in a male-dominated field. From that moment onwards, I focused on reading published research from women, but now I don’t really have to think about it anymore. These women are still on my radar, but I feel like things have changed. It is also really changing at this faculty, and I’m very happy about that. It’s important to make sure that everyone is included and that there’s a good balance of different identities.”
Lisa continues, “I think things are getting better for women in academia. Yet, for everyone, it’s harder to find academic positions abroad since you could find yourself filling precarious positions for a long time before landing a permanent position. Meanwhile, it’s not always possible to move to other cities for new positions when you have children and a partner.”
I may not have decided whether to pursue an academic career yet, and I may sway to one path before jumping back to another many more times. Nonetheless, this conversation has been incredibly useful in understanding the many elements that need to be considered if I were to pursue a PhD position later. With this thought in mind, I ask one final question: “What advice would you give to a current student considering a career in academic philosophy?”
Lisa takes a short moment to ponder my question before answering with a smile. “Do not simply focus on wanting to do a PhD and finding a position. Make sure that you engage with subject matter that lights your fire. You need to be intrinsically motivated, engaged, and feel like your research is important. There must be something at stake, and your heart needs to be in it, so to speak. The right way to go about this could be to do a PhD as an external candidate, but if you find a good position in a good research group, I imagine that’s amazing, too. You can flourish when you find passion for your field and discover your sense of community.”
We exchange a few last words and wish each other luck in our future endeavours. Although I do not know what awaits me in the near future, I find a sense of comfort in knowing that there is no singular, fixed path to a career in academia or another field. The conversations I had with Lisa and other academics have been extremely valuable. If you find yourself questioning your potential place in academic philosophy, find a moment to enjoy a cup of tea with some of your lecturers.
Shortly after our interview, Lisa published her book, Apocalypsofie, and is now working on the completion of her PhD. More information about this publication can be found following the link below: